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If I were Bob Murray and the Leafs wanted Getzlaf, here’s what I’d insist on…

I believe we can say it: the win over the Red Wings has some meaning.  I say that because not all regular-season victories are quite created equal.    All games are worth two points, of course, but some wins set the scale for something more to come.  And the win Saturday night for Toronto may turn out to be one of those moments.

Now, I hesitate to predict turning points simply based on a third win in a row at home, or even beating a fine Detroit team.  (Some context for such reluctance:  as a then die-hard and young Green Bay Packer fan on the opening day of the 1970 (or was it 1971?) NFL season, I remember the TV game-announcers saying the then young Packer defensive line had come of age after a big-third down stop when the game was still close in the first half.  The Packers went on to get hammered 40-0 by Detroit…)

Since then, I’m not inclined to pronounce such perceived key moments or big wins as “turning points”.  In hockey, momentum sometimes only lasts until the next goal, or the next game.

But I like the fact that the Leafs were able to lose a three-goal lead but still earn a win.  A sweet and very smart (and he knew he was going to get hit, too) play by Lupul was huge, coming on the heels of a surprisingly egregious defensive letdown by the Wings.  But you know what I really liked?  With 50 seconds to go, Franzen, I think it was, was left all alone in front of the Leaf net and one-timed a great pass from behind the net.  Gustavsson was in position to anticipate and make the save.  The result was two points for the blue and white.

Next time it could be Reimer- does it matter?


In the two and a half years since Vintage Leaf Memories was launched, those of you who drop by fairly regularly will know I’m not big on rumors or trade speculation.  It’s not that I don’t find it as much fun as the next person (heck, fans need to engage in some arm-chair quarterbacking--I spent most of my youth concocting possible Leaf trades in my head at school...); it’s simply that there are plenty of sites that handle this sort of thing.  Even if I was so inclined, they do it far better than I could.

But we do seem to be at a point in time when the Leafs are likely engaged in some serious talks with somebody about moves that would improve upon the current roster.  Burke always makes a point of saying that he likes to move ahead of the pack.  (I don’t know if this is historically accurate; perhaps someone has done the actual research on his claim…)  That is, he prefers to trade in advance of the deadline, when he feels he can make more fruitful moves and not be under duress.

So the timing is such that one is led to believe that something of a significant nature could transpire in the next week or two, if not sooner.  And the wild (maybe it’s not so wild, given the Ducks have seemingly been fairly open about their intentions) speculation surrounding Getzlaf mounts by the day.

I have no idea what is or isn’t being discussed, and if the Leafs are in play for Getzlaf, Bobby Ryan or anyone else in Anaheim—or elsewhere—but I’m of the view that Burke does not want to be left at the altar if one (or both) of those star players are available.

On the heels of their three-game winning steak, the Leafs may feel they can stand pat, but I don't think so.  And if this is indeed a possibility, chances to acquire players like that in their prime come around fairly seldom.

Now, we can sit and speculate what the Leafs would be willing to give up to acquire one or both of these premier forward talents.  But I’m focused today on putting myself in the shoes of Anaheim General Manager Bob Murray, the man who replaced Burke as GM with the Ducks.

We know a few things.  Murray and Burke have worked together and likely quite respect each other.  The two men have made a number of trades together since Burke took over as GM of the Leafs.  Perhaps the biggest deal saw Francois Beauchemin head to Anaheim a year ago in return for then injury-played (and career-stalled) Joffrey Lupul and a kid a lot of us knew precious little about—though draft geeks certainly did—young Jake Gardiner.

This was a trade that may prove to be as, or more, one-sided than the Phaneuf/Calgary trade.  Even if Lupul wasn’t having an All-Star season while the Ducks struggle to win games, Gardiner’s emergence as a smooth-skating, smart and poised young defenseman seemingly ensures he will be a star in the game for years to come.  He may not become another Scott Niedermayer, but he can play, and should only get better and better.  Maybe even an All-Star, and I mean the kind they name at the end of an NHL season.

In any event, this is part of the backdrop, at least in my mind, of any discussions that might be ongoing between the Leafs and the Ducks.  Murray is well aware of his recent trading history with Burke, and how the hockey world sees the transactions.   It’s clear that the perception is that Burke has “won” the deals.  He shockingly dumped salary (Jason Blake) in one deal and stole Lupul and Gardiner in the other.

So Murray won’t want to be ambushed again, and if he chooses to deal with the Leafs, I would think he has to exact a huge price to give up players of the stature of Ryan or Getzlaf.  Burke didn’t draft Getzlaff but he was GM when the Ducks selected Ryan.  He seems to love both players.

Bottom line? If I’m Bob Murray, my negotiations don’t proceed on offering either of those two guys to Burke unless Jake Gardiner is coming back to Anaheim.  And, since Murray already gave Gardiner away a year ago in an awful deal (click to read more), he has to do a lot better than just get back a kid that he should never have let go in the first place—especially since he would now be giving up one of the best power-forwards (Getzlaff) or pure offensive talents (Ryan) in the game today.

So in Murray’s shoes, I would be insisting on Gardiner, Schenn and James Reimer, and see where things go from there. Like including Tyler Bozak and/or Kulemin, as well.

We all remember how Burke and Boston’s Peter Chiarelli went toe to toe in two major deals over the past few years.  Burke got exactly what he wanted in Phil Kessel—a young, high-flying talent who had already proven he could score at the NHL level and would only get better (presumably) with time.  And Kessel has.  But the price Chiarelli extracted (two first-rounders) turned out to be much more than Burke likely really believed would be the case.  We now know Tyler Seguin and Doug Hamilton are two awfully promising players who may be cornerstones in Boston for a decade.

The second time around, Burke fleeced Chiarelli, but while no one would ever admit this publicly, Chiarelli probably figured he had already garnered huge dividends from the first deal with Burke, so he was prepared to take a hit on the Kaberle move to get what he wanted- a puck-moving defenseman.  He gave up Colborne and the first-rounder that gave the Leafs (through a subsequent draft day deal) young Tyler Biggs. Toronto looks to be the winners of that deal, long-term.

However, the Bruins won their Cup, though the role Kabby played was pretty minor, and Seguin’s contribution was limited to a few offensive outbursts, though certainly well-timed.  But even when and if Toronto wins a Cup with the players Burke got from the Bruins, they will only be matching what the Bruins have already accomplished.

So now, Murray faces a decision.  If he must (for financial reasons?) move one or both of Getzlaf and Ryan, he has to determine if he can get a better deal elsewhere—or can Toronto offer the “best” deal.

And if I’m Murray, that “best” deal has to include Gardiner, Schenn and Reimer.


  1. Steve Simmons in Toronto went off the deep end by recently suggesting Getzlaf should be acquired for Kessel who is 2 years younger and of course rght now the better player. I'll be the first to admit I was skeptical about Kessel at first, but this guy looks like someone the Leafs should be building around for the next decade.

  2. I think sending Gardiner makes sense. But no way we give them Schenn and Reimer as well. Also I doubt Reimer makes sense for the ducks anyway, Hillar is their #1.

    I would think a trade would have more draft picks involved. Our 1st 2012 headed west for sure, possibly a 2nd as well. Then a roster player from the leafs balance out the cap hits.

    Bobby Ryan or Getzlaff

    1st/2nd 2012
    Armstrong or Komi (balance cap hit)

  3. Ryan Getzlaff has become a must-have for many Leaf fans but there is no way I would trade Gardiner, Schenn, Reimer and another for him. Burke has stated that you need 10 defencemen to get through an NHL season. He has also stated that he wanted to build the team from the goal out. I agree with this philosophy. Giving up Reimer, Gardiner and Schenn would deplete our goaltending and defence depth.
    I also have reservations about Getzlaff. He is having a poor season and his comments about the Anaheim coaching change were disturbing and did not portray him as a committed team first player.

  4. "He shockingly dumped salary (Jason Blake) in one deal and stole Lupul and Gardiner in the other."

    Burke dumped Blake, but remember that Giguere had his $7 Mil coming - it was hardly Anaheim taking on cash. Not to mention that Giguere was posting a .900 while being outplayed by Hiller - Murray. And while Blake still isn't performing up to his contract, he did put up 32 points on their third line. Murray also flipped Toskala for McElhinney, who was moved for current backup Dan Ellis. Perception or not, Murray did quite well in the Giguere trade.

    I think you're also downplaying Beauchemin's performance on a struggling Ducks team - he's been eating up minutes on D, (26:00 ATOI) and leads the league in PK TOI/G (4:50, with 189:01 overall, a full 22 minutes of PK time more than second place).

    Gardiner was moved because Fowler is Anaheim's offensive option of the future. Yeah, it sucks for Anaheim that he's been looking great (and probably could've been moved for more), but Fowler has 17 in 39 (to Jake's 10 in 37), and Anaheim's needs are on in their own zone more than the offensive.

  5. I think the deals between the two sides have been fairly balanced, really.

    The Blake deal worked out very well for both sides and though Lupul has been phenomenal for the Leafs, he wasn't a fit in Anaheim and really wasn't performing anywhere near his cap hit.

    If I had to guess, a package for Getzlaf would need to include Schenn, but I think some of the secondary pieces might not be as crazy as we might think. Schenn, Colborne, Bozak, and a 2nd rounder might do it provided the Ducks don't get a better offer elsewhere. In a vaccuum, I think the value is there for them.

  6. Sean, I, too, have been hesitant about embracing Kessel as a guy who will become an all-around player. It took a while for players like Yzerman and Modano to be truly "complete" and he is younger than they were when they accomplished their transformation. He is having a career year, which does not guarantee future achievements or being a cornerstone player, but the clues right now look promising. I can't imagine he would ever be part of any trade.

    Anon. You may well be right. But personally, I would think Murray would extract a tougher return than mostly picks, which as we all know are never a sure thing.

    Pete Cam. You raise an interesting point about Getzlaff. There's no question it would deplete the Leaf depth on defence if they made such a move. And I'm a huge believer, as I have posted here many times, in being 10-deep on defence heading into the playoffs. But to be clear, I was looking at this post exclusively from the standpoint of Murray and the Ducks, as in, if I was in Murray's shoes, this is what I would insist on from the Leafs if they wanted either Ryan or Getzlaff. I was not suggesting the Leafs should ante up those particular players.

    Bower Power. I hear your points, of course. You know your stuff and I take your thoughts seriously. I think we all like Beauchemin and his usually (though perhaps less pronounced during his tenure in Toronto) tough and steady play. I wrote about him many times during his time here. But though he is playing big minutes, the team is clearly struggling. That doesn't fall on Beauchemin, of course, but his efforts have still not made it a good trade for the Ducks, in my own view. Maybe I'm wrong. But even with Fowler, you can afford to have another offensive-minded young defenseman with elite skill, poise and skating ability. Murray thought Beauchemin would help them make the playoffs, but I believe it was an oddly short-sighted move, and I wrote such at the time. Gardiner may be a star for a decade after Beauchemin is retired. I just think Murray gave up way too much, though he did move salary in Lupul, which was no doubt a huge part of the equation at the time.

    As for the Blake scenario, you are correct, but my point was more that Burke was able to move a seemingly un-mpvable contract- a player that no longer fit here- relatively painlessly. For Anaheim, sure, Blake has been OK, but to me, not for the money they are paying him. (I realize he suffered a serious injury...) Thanks for posting.

  7. Curt S...good post. I'd be only guessing, too, if I had to try to anticipate what it would take for the Leafs to grab one of Ryan or Kessel. In this post, I was commenting on what I would insist on if I were in Bob Murray's shoes and the Leafs asked me about either of Getzlaff or Ryan. If I didn't get what I wanted, I would move on, especially given Anaheim's recent trading history with Toronto.

  8. Murray has been sort of fleeced before (on more than one occasion) by Burke. For that reason he may be hesitant to make a big deal again with him. However, I think the move to fire one struggling coach to hire another struggling coach, shows the GM is still making questionable decisions.

    As for your suggested players, I'm sure Anaheim would love to get Gardiner back, but I think Burke knows he stole the kid from under their nose, I don't think he hands him back. As for Schenn, I could see Burke giving him up as he has other D who can be physical. Not sure if I'm Anaheim I want to take either Reimer or the Monster, as neither have proven to be #1 goalies as yet. As to what other players to offer, well Murray wants NHL-ready players. I'd have no problems parting with Grabovski, Kulemin, and Schenn (for the likes of Ryan or Getzlaf). If not Kulemin, maybe Lombardi.

    We'll see what happens, if anything.

  9. TML_fan...well said. This may be indeed be a case where, as you say, nothing may happen. If the Leafs and Anaheim are indeed "talking", my sense is Murray would demand a lot in return. And I tend to agree with you that Murray would want NHL-ready players, not primarily future draft choices.

    As for the coaching decision, it was unusual, for sure. Maybe it'll work out for Anaheim. Boudreau was well thought-of in Washington for years, but right now, things look a bit gloomy with the Ducks and his quick decision to take a bother job. I think sometimes coaches are better off if they take some time off between gigs to reflect and think on their approach and what they may need to do a bit differently next time around...

  10. In my opinion GMs don't generally like 'undoing' a move, because then people start lumping the trades together to see who won (like people did with the Kessel trade when Burke had to trade to get the Leafs 2nd round pick back beforehand).
    Therefore my guess is that Gardner doesn't go back.
    I really appreciate the perspective you've put into this Michael, all the comments above seem to be like the fantasy GMs I play with: they overvalue their players and they want someone else to bend over and take it to help them out.
    The best we could possibly hope for out of Kadri/Colborne is that they could be AS GOOD as Getz, so that is the starting point. 1st/2nd are nowhere near as valuable right now as they were in the Kessel trade because the potential to tank isn't there...or at least as likely :) so I agree with you above that it will take a ton more than picks.
    Grabbo is a UFA so probly too risky for Murray. I'd love to move Kulemin but he's garbage right now, but then again Hagman was moved when slumping with the label of a 'former 30 goal scorer' so you never know I guess.
    Aulie+Kadri+Macarthur+1st. And I'm still not sure it is enough for a proven superstar. I'd do it in a heartbeat though.
    Last thing: To me this reeks of a GM trying to push his team. The term 'available' is one thing, but the fact that he's saying he wants a comparable player back shows he isn't serious. What other team has a spare PPG Center available? Even the rumoured ones mentioned aren't good enough for a one-for-one (Lecav, Stastny, Roy, etc).
    I'd b shocked if anything happened, but also I might die of happiness if the Leafs get Getz. It is good to know that Burke's past with both these players and the GM definitely mean he will at least do his due diligence first.

  11. Tremendous post, Chris may well be right, that GM's don't typically "undo" earlier deals. (I just think Murray might like a do-over on that one, and if he was somehow to move Getzlaf to TO, he would make sure he got more than enough back to help mitigate the Lupul/Gardiner deal...I like Beauchemin, and others have mentioned he has helped Anaheim. I just don't think Anaheim got enough back on that one....)

    I too tend to think this won't happen. Murray sounds like frustrated GM, and maybe, as you suggest, he is trying to get guys going. Seems to me that, if I was GM in Anaheim, I would build around Ryan and Getzlaf, not get rid of them. I'm not sure you ever get full value in return. Those are the kind of players that most teams dream about acquiring....and they drafted both guys, so they had to give up zero assets to get them in the first place.

    But my "thesis" for the day, I guess, is simply that if I'm Murray, I ONLY move one of those guys if I get exactly what I want back- and a bit more.

  12. under the current circumstances, a trade for getz or ryan seems extremely unlikely for the leafs. The more pieces you remove from a team the more risk there is of it all falling apart. I dont think Burke wants to undo all his progress for more fire power. Sitting at 5th overall in the league for goals per game and 3rd overall for PP %, offense doesn't seem to be a problem. What the leafs need is an upgrade on defense. Leafs are deep with young D with huge ceilings but need a REAL shut down defenseman TODAY not future ones like we have right now in Schenn, Aulie, Franson etc. We also need one more impact player in our bottom six. A grizzly veteran with an NHL stick that can bring it every game. A defensive specialist if you will who can set the tone on the PK every night. The latter might be more easily done without disturbing the current lineup (i.e prospects/picks) however a shut down D might be a little more to ask for. Still, of all the moves Burke has pulled off in his time in Toronto, never has he had more pieces to work with. With Bozak Amrstrong and Liles coming back there seems to be a bit of a log jam approaching. When line juggling, it seams like another scoring winger might also be needed.

    Lupul Bozak Kessel

    Kadri Connelly MacArthur

    Kulemin Grabovsky Scoring Winger

    Armstrong Steckel PK Specialist/Veteran

    Phaneuf Gunnarson

    ShutDownD Liles

    Komisarek Gardiner


    potential trade bait: Armstrong, Franson, Lombardi, Brown, Aulie, Frattin, Colborne Scrivens, draft picks

  13. In recent history, I've seen trades go through that involve a *potential* impact player being moved for a roster player, a top prospect, and a first round pick. Taking on your perspective, as GM Bob Murray, focusing on what my team needs, it is interesting that a player like Beauch is still getting massive minutes. And with 129 GA, they are second to last (Columbus has 130) in the Western Conference. With an aging offense (Blake, Saku, Teemu, and Hagman) Anaheim needs an influx of young offensive and defensive talent. Murray has also stated that he does not want to rebuild, so numerous draft picks going the other way are out of the question. If I'm Murray, I'm really into Aulie, a potential defensive anchor on D, and Grabo and Kuli as an influx of young offensive talent.

    If Murray is willing to actually move Getz or Ryan, he has to rebuild in the next few years because he'll be losing four of his forwards (Getz/Ryan, Teemu, Blake and Saku). For this reason I don't think Murray is going to move any of the RPG line, it would set him too far back in the process of building a contender. Murray needs a big time upgrade on D, but it isn't worth the gamble of losing a star first line player.

  14. Jack H...I would agree that I would be very surprised if Murray really and truly wants to move either of Getzlaf or Ryan. If for some reason he needed/wanted to, it would have to be for an awfully big return. And my belief is if the Leafs were interested and if (lots of "ifs" here...) Murray was prepared to have the conversation, he would demand a lot- probably more than Burke would be ready to give.

    I think your assessment of Anaheim's needs makes a lot of sense. They need a bit of everything, it seems. They thought they were set in goal, but I don't know about the goalie's health. Fowler has promise on the back end but they surely need more everywhere, and their record shows it. Trading away the cornerstone players they do have would seem unlikely unless they got so much youth and proven skill back.

  15. Thanks for the well thought-out post, Anon. You touch on an interesting notion, that the Leafs actually need defensive help more than a big-time scorer. Whether Komisarek, Phaneuf or Schenn are -or can be- "shut-down" defensemen would likely be debated heavily in Leaf world. I agree as well that Burke won't want to over-play his hand as and make one move too many.

    The defence has a nice mix of young guys like Franson, Schenn, Aulie and Gardiner and guys with some experience like Liles and Komisarek. Phaneuf is a mix of youth and experience. None is perfect but all capable of contributing.

    The only thing I would add is, in my own view, it will take more than borderline guys (just looking at your list of possible "trade bait" Leafs) or third-liners to attract a shutdown defenseman. We all know no one is giving them away.

    We'll see if what you are suggesting (if I read your post right) holds true: that the Leafs need primarily a third-line guy with real shutdown and PK abilities, and a strong "d" man to move forward.

    My thought is, though the Leaf "stats" are good offensively, come playoff time, they will be facing teams who play a gritty style and the goals won't be easy as easy to come by. They'll need several lines who can contribute at both ends of the ice and, of course, defensemen who can make simple plays and clear the front of the net...Great post, thanks.

  16. I think Schenn is a Burke favourite and would prfer to keep him. Burke could talk his way out of that. Gardiner i don't think would go back after Burke just got him. If Hiller is staying, I'm not sure why they would take Reimer.

    Grabovski, Kadri, Franson, Holzer, and a 2nd/3rd for Getzlaf

  17. Am I the only person that thinks that Getzlaf is far over-priced?
    Grabo, Kadri Franson, Holzer and a draft pick is far too much for Getzlaf. Grabo and Kadri is already too much. If Kadri can put on a few more lbs and keep getting better as he goes, he has the potential to be a better player than getzlaf. Grabovski is a quality second line scorer that the Leafs can't afford to trade.

    Of the leafs forwards they really can only afford trading guys like
    MacArthur, Lombardi, Armstrong, Bozak.

    I wouldn't even lump Kulemin in with that because he is in such a bad offensive slump that his value is considerably lower than it should be.

    I wouldn't mind trading Colborne if its either him or Kadri, but the Leafs don't really need more offensive right now and shouldn't bother trying to trade half of their team for a single player.

  18. TMLs...I can't answer your question. It sounds like some (like yourself) think Getzlaf is not worth a big return.

    My stance on this post was strictly looking at any possible deal with the Leafs from the perspective of Bob Murray. And if I were in his shoes, and Burke (this is all theoretical, of course) did approach me about Getzlaf or Ryan, I would insist on the players I mentioned in the post as a starting point. And that would probably end the discussion....

  19. Wouldnt do it, for Ryan or Perry, as for Getz - most Id go is Grabbo,a 1st(iffy - have to eventually stop trading 1sts) and Aulie or Franson/blacker(one of our younger D)
    we can back fill centers (bozak, connolly, lombo, kadri, Steckel) they get a good 2nd line player that with ryan or perry on the wing could be a first line center, (most teams run 1a /1b)...
    They get an injection of youthful Defense first D, and quality pick and 2nd line center.
    WE get our 1A center. theres my 2 cents

  20. The Ducks and Caps had scouts at Marlies games this weekend, so maybe the rumors are true about Getzlaf. But if there is one thing about Burke I think we would all agree upon, it's that he will no doubt surprise us with a deal we never expected.

  21. Thanks Anon, I enjoyed hearing your "two cents"! Well said.

    The Muppet: Thanks for the tip on the Marlie game. But your bigger point is a great one. Burke has surprised us before with moves we did not expect, including the Phaneuf deal with Calgary, of course...

  22. The thought of Getzlaf centering Kessel and

    I agree with some others that this is more of a ploy by the GM to get his players to pick up the slack but if Anaheim continues to play poorly and not get any results, I expect one of the big three to be traded by the deadline date.

    If it does happen and Getzlaf comes to Toronto, I expect Burke will have to pay a very heavy price. Because of their previous dealings, I'm sure Burke will have to pay a premium, because optics do matter and no doubt Murray will play the 'you got me in the last deal' card if they were to talk about a deal.

    And seriously folks, as much as we'd like to think that the previous Anaheim deals were somewhat balanced, let's be honest. Anaheim got taken to the cleaners.

  23. Hogie, I sense you and I are on the same page on this one. If Murray does talk to Toronto, the price, one would think, would be very high. So it likely would not happen...but a fun discussion nonetheless.

  24. Since everyone is speculating on what might be needed to get say, Getzlaf I think you have to consider the team he is coming from... in that, is this a cap team or budget one, do they need to get over the cap floor in the next few seasons or under the ceiling as well as how we have heard time and time again, that if money is moving from one team it will also be coming back and depending on the difference that will usually mean plus something coming back to make up for the difference.

    So with that in mind, I can see a scenario like a Connolly like player (4.5M + very good set-up (almost a PPG player) and defensively sound player on 2yr contract - low risk *injuries aside) to "replace" Getz and maybe a combination of a player like Cabb that can play up and down your lineup and dirt cheap plus a sound stay at home D-man like Aulie who can still be sent to the minors risk free and is dirt cheap, very young, tough and already playing on our top pairings.

    The way I see it also is that at this point do we really need to start shuffling the deck since this will be the first full season that we have regulars (guys that have finally have more than a few games to play together and work together with the coaches) now to trade away some future for a quick fix... that kinda sounds familiar... after all I don't expect the Leafs to make much noise this year in the post season IF we get in anyway, we are still one of the youngest teams in the league remember. Anyway I dont see the urgency of getting a guy like Getz and having to trade key young players like Colborne or Kadri at this point... If we were a team that could be cup contenders, yes maybe... if it makes sense but at this stage and time? Like Burke said at the last trade deadline, (paraphrasing) "not gonna make a trade (our future) so we can just scrape into the playoffs just to be blown out in the first round...etc." I guess we'll have to wait and see where these guys think this team is really at if or not a "big trade" happens and what kind of trade they do make and for what.

  25. You raise one of the key aspects in all this speculative talk, A. Donnybrook: do the Leafs really need to make a "big" move, and would this really be that proper time to do so, anyway?

    Again, I was simply thinking out loud and, on the off chance the Leafs and Ducks were engaging in serious big-gane talks, looking at what I would need back from the Leafs if they really did push for Ryan or Getzlaf. My view in this post was not that they should, or must- I was simply taking Anaheim's perspective on any possible negotiations. Thanks for the post.

  26. The Leafs need a player like Getzlaf. Plain and simple. His presence along with the continued development of our back end talent and goaltending turns this team into a contender.

    If, and I feel it's a big if, Anaheim were to move him, it would have to be for something that makes them better in the future. I'm thinking a young roster player on attack and defense, plus our 1st round pick + a prospect. A deal of this magnitude costs us Schenn, Kulemin, the 1st and Kadri.

  27. Anon...again, my stance in this post was IF the two sides were talking, and if I was Murray, I would be demanding an awful lot from the Leafs.

    That said, while the names we have put forward are different, both "proposals", for me, would amount to "serious" bids for someone like Getzlaf or Ryan. I don't think it gets done with futures, "maybe" prospects and second-line guys. We are talking about an established star with a Cup on his resume (Getzlaf) and one of the game's more promising and talented young players (Ryan). Thanks for the comment.

  28. Interesting trade talks developing for sure but forgive my pessimism. I've been fooled before by big names coming to Toronto. Even as recent as Brad Richards over the summer, I held a glimmer of hope he may end up in Leaf land but it never materialized obviously. I'm not crazy about giving up Gardiner for either Ryan or Getzlaf, but I wouldn't be opposed to a Schenn or Colbourne. That being said, I don't see this happening, though I wish it did

  29. I think what you are saying is realistic, Andrew from NL. As I've said, if Murray is "offering" these guys, he would surely hold out for a major return. So I'm with you; while I don't think it will happen, this post was an exercise in looking at things from the other side...